The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Co-op & Condo Insider is your trusted source for expert commentary led by advocates within New York City’s co-op and condo world. Each episode offers insights into the challenges, news, and stories that shape a community making up more than 20% of this great city’s residents.
The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Advocate's Path: Warren Schreiber's Civic Journey
Warren Schreiber's journey from Brooklyn to becoming one of New York's most influential co-op advocates reveals the hidden power dynamics shaping housing policy throughout the city. As a retired MTA veteran who stumbled into co-op living through marriage, Warren transformed from an ordinary resident to a formidable voice representing thousands.
The Bay Terrace community, with its 18 co-ops housing nearly 6,000 residents, has become a political force that candidates simply cannot ignore. "If they can't carry Bay Terrace in the election, they're in trouble," Warren explains, pointing to recent elections where this single neighborhood delivered decisive margins. This grassroots influence has opened doors to governors, mayors, and senators, creating unprecedented access for everyday New Yorkers fighting to protect their homes.
At the heart of Warren's advocacy is a simple truth: lawmakers fundamentally misunderstand co-op communities. Through the President's Co-op and Condo Council, he's built bridges across political divides, working with officials from both parties to educate them about the unique challenges facing shared housing. The results speak volumes—from legislative victories to courtroom battles reaching New York's highest court.
Perhaps most urgent is Warren's fight against Local Law 97, which threatens co-ops with impossible financial burdens. "For my co-op, it would probably cost about $10-15 million," he reveals, questioning how 200 middle-class shareholders could possibly absorb such costs. His passionate argument that corporations who created climate problems should fund the solutions resonates far beyond housing circles.
Behind these policy battles stands a morning person who rises at 5:30 AM, collects Snoopy memorabilia, and knows the best pizza joints in Queens. Warren represents thousands of volunteer board members—"probably the smartest people I know"—who dedicate countless hours to their communities without recognition. Their expertise and dedication ensure that cooperative housing remains a vital, affordable option for New Yorkers seeking stable communities in an increasingly unstable housing landscape.
Tom Swasey's last election New York Congressional District won. He won by 12,000 votes and he won the Nassau portion by 2,000 votes, which is nothing. He won the Queens part by over 10,000. And most of those votes came from Bay Terrace.
Speaker 2:Right, and we never let Tom forget it.
Speaker 3:This is the Co-op and Condo Insider, the podcast dedicated to New York's cooperative and condominium community. This is your trusted source for the latest insights, strategies and stories shaping the world of shared housing. You will hear from the people who are leaders in this community information and insights you will not hear anywhere else. If you want to stay ahead of the curve, you're in the right place. The views and opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of the host or any affiliated individuals or organizations.
Speaker 1:Hello, welcome to the Co-op and Condo Insider. This is where we explore the real-world issues facing the Co-op and Condo community across New York City and New York State, with inside expertise and a healthy dose of straight talk. I'm one of your co-hosts, jeffrey Maisel. Many of you might know I'm a co-op attorney and legal advisor to the President's Co-op and Condo Council and I'm thrilled to be joined by my co-host, richard Solomon, a seasoned voice in public radio for over 20 years, richard Solomon, a seasoned voice in public radio for over 20 years, richard has taken his listeners around the world to meet experts, newsmakers and the people making a real difference in our everyday lives. Richard, it's great to have you on the mic with us today.
Speaker 4:Thank you for the honor for being here.
Speaker 1:All right. Today we're honored to welcome Warren Schreiber, a man who wears many hats he's the president of his own co-op, president of the Queen's Civic Congress, co-president of the President's Co-op and Condo Council. Warren is a tireless advocate for co-op residents and a driving force for fair and informed co-op housing policies in New York. He understands the nuts and bolts of co-op governance and we welcome him here today. Warren, thrilled to have you and honored to have you. So let's, we gave a little bit of your background. Why don't you give us a little more and tell us where you're from? Are you originally from Queens?
Speaker 2:Sure. So let me begin. First of all, jeff, I want to thank you for having me here as the first guest on this badly needed podcast where we can talk to people and explain the issues that are impacting the co-op and condo community, and Richard Solomon, it's a pleasure to be with you again. Thank you both. And so originally I was from Brooklyn, I was born in Brooklyn, I lived in Brooklyn, my father was a World War II veteran and when he came home from World War II, we actually moved into city housing, which is now known as Knight a wonderful place to grow up.
Speaker 1:So let's fast forward. What brought you to Queens the promised land, so to speak and what brought you to co-op housing?
Speaker 2:Sure. So what brought me to Queens was my job. I worked for the MTA. I worked for the MTA for over 30 years and my last assignments probably the last 14 years I was always situated someplace in Queens. The last time was actually right out of Jamaica, where you have the Jamaica Yards right now, down by Kew Gardens and co-op housing. You know, I wish that I could say that co-op housing. I was smart enough to be my choice, but actually when I met my current wife, she was already living in the apartment and I realized what a wonderful lifestyle it was. So I have to credit her.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you're smart enough to meet her and get married, but not smart enough to know co-op housing was going to lead you to a whole new path. So you're working for the MTA, you're married to your lovely wife, and what pulled you to be a member of the board of directors?
Speaker 2:a member of the board of directors. Sure, so you know, when I first moved to Bay Terrace that's our co-op, bay Terrace, cooperative, section 1. And, as a matter of fact, when I first met my wife, I didn't even know what Bay Terrace was. I didn't even know it existed, and when I first came out here it reminded me of the country, because at that time it was, you didn't have a lot of development.
Speaker 1:What year was this Warren?
Speaker 2:Oh, this would probably be when I first came out here about 1990, maybe. So you know. Naturally, like every place else, bay Terrace has developed and we have a lot of new housing, we have a lot of traffic, but at that time it was just someplace where I lived. I went back and forth to work. I really didn't have time to be involved in the day-to-day operation of the co op. But then when I retired from the MTA which was wow, way back in 1996, in 1996. I took more of an interest in it and I was able to become what we refer to as associate members, and on our board we have directors who are elected by the shareholders and they are able to vote on any decisions that we make. Associate members. I like to equate it to a farm team. It's our farm team and that's where we have shareholders who they sit in on the meetings. They can participate in the meetings but they can't.
Speaker 1:So you're an associate member, You're liking it right? You're getting interested.
Speaker 2:I'm liking it. And then one year we had an opening on the board and I decided to run for that opening and I was successful. And here I was. I was a member of the board For a very short time. I actually became the treasurer of the co-op. Bad move there, bad move there, bad move there, right, and then I decided it was time for me to move on. I wanted to take the co-op in a different direction. There were some things that I thought could be done better than they were being done.
Speaker 1:Did you ever think in those days that this would lead you to the steps of City Hall, the steps of the New York State Capitol and literally meetings with US senators, governors, mayors, etc. Any inkling at that time?
Speaker 2:Never, because you know, when I first came on the board, and for a long time, the main concern that we had as a board was, you know, we had to do some repairs. We had landscaping, you know, we had plumbing repairs. We would respond to complaints People would complain about their neighbor making noise and that took up a great deal of our time. And that took up a great deal of our time. But now most of my time is taken up dealing with legislative issues and unfunded mandates that the, that the city and the state are trying to impose on us. So it's been a, you know it's been. It's been a real change in in what we, what we have to do and how we devote our time in what we, what we have to do and how we devote our time.
Speaker 1:So just just a fun fact, warren's probably the only board president I know who's who's lawyer fired him, and and from the dust of that that traumatic event came the hiring of a young, young lawyer named Jeffrey Maisel. So why don't you tell, tell everyone how that came about?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 2:So when, when I, when I, when I eventually became president of the board, we had an attorney who had been with the corporation for a long time. And part of the problem was that when I took over the board, when I became president, we had a lot of people who had gotten very comfortable, including our attorney, our accountant, even some of our vendors, the contractors that we use, and you know it was a comfort level that didn't benefit the corporation. So one time I spoke to the attorney and my question to him was would it be possible, when we ask for certain documents or certain information, if he would be able to produce that in a quicker timeframe, a faster timeframe than he had been able to? And I still remember his words to me were well, warren, if you feel that way, I guess you should find a new attorney. And I was standing there holding the phone and I'm going like, wow, this guy just fired me.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, it was a strange experience but, as Jeff said, it worked out for the better, because we started interviewing attorneys and as soon as Jeff and Mark walked in and they sat down, we knew these were the guys, and it's been a great partnership ever since. How long has it been, jeff? It's been 2022 years.
Speaker 4:Think about this that phone call has led to this podcast, with all of us being here today.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And again, if I ever thought that phone call that I got from Warren Schreiber, who just got fired from his other and they told me that, by the way, they said, be careful, this guy's tough and it's led to an incredible path of advocacy and civic engagement. Warren and I had a meeting, and I can't remember, with this is in the very early days of our legislative involvement and we had a meeting with I can't remember, a council member. We went to two 50 Broadway. She wasn't there. Nobody knew about us. We went all the way to new two 50 Broadway with absolutely nothing to do. Nobody would meet with us. So we sat in front of, we stood in front of the building and Warren knew some of the. He recognized some of the council members. So on the way in we grabbed them and we would, we would meet with them on the sidewalk and those were our first meetings with with.
Speaker 1:I don't even know if we had a group back then, but we couldn't get arrested. So, warren, you wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 3:President's.
Speaker 1:Co-op and Condo Council. Queen's Civic Congress. I guess Bay Terrace, section 1. What inspired you to your civic advocacy beyond Bay Terrace Section 1? How did that develop?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, they all work together and it was back in 1999 in Bay Terrace. We're a community of co-ops and condos. I believe there's 18 or 19 different co-ops and condos and somebody had proposed the idea it wasn't me of creating a civic group, but at that time we didn't have one in Bay Terrace and the members were going to be mostly these multifamily buildings. We decided, we gave it a name, we called it the Bay Terrace Community Alliance and I became active in that. For a while I was a a vice president and then I went on to become president of that organization. I was president for about 10 years, I think, and that just led to other involvement. I believe in civic engagement. That's a way that we can give back to the community and it's also a way that we can, you know, speak to our elected officials. And the Clinton Civic Congress is a very influential group, as is the President's Corp and Condo Council.
Speaker 1:What is the President's Corp and Condo Council and how your involvement came about.
Speaker 2:So the President's Corp and Condo Council I believe it goes back to 2012, 2011. It was set up in response at that time, the Department of Finance, the co-ops and condos. They were getting hit with double and triple digit tax increases on the assessed valuation and we needed something to be a voice, and it was actually my good friend, bob Friedrich. He put this together and Bob and I we now share the presidency, but before that there was no United Voice for the co-op and condo community.
Speaker 2:There were other organizations, but unfortunately, those organizations would very often try to sell to members and by the members I mean the different co-op and condo properties. They would try to sell services and products which we didn't need and in many instances it was somewhat self-serving because you had attorneys who were on the boards controlling those organizations and their main motivation was that they wanted to generate new clients for themselves. They weren't really helping the community. So, bob and I, we realized the need for this and we have put this together. And we have put this together and right now I mean sometimes I'm just overwhelmed by how successful it's been, by the influence that we have, the people that we have been able to meet with.
Speaker 1:I mean, there aren't too many people who say they won't meet with us, as evidenced by Andrew.
Speaker 1:Cuomo who was not leaving his house for any reason until recently, but he met with us two weeks ago in Glen Oaks in what I think a very important meeting with possibly the next mayor of New York. So I just want to also add that the President's Colp and Condo Council. It developed organically and it's grassroots and we don't really spend a lot of money. We don't really have a lot of money. That I always find is lately. Whenever we do something I guess we pack a good punch is we're accused of being big real estates behind us.
Speaker 4:Well, speaking of that, how many units are there in Bay Terrace right now?
Speaker 2:18 co-ops and condos the exact number of units. I don't have that right at the tip of my hand.
Speaker 1:I would say 3,500 to 4,000.
Speaker 2:And how many?
Speaker 4:people, would you say, occupy all those units.
Speaker 2:Probably 5,000 to 6,000 people. So it's a. You know it's a large voting block and you know very often a lot of the elected officials they know that if they can't carry Bay Terrace in the election they're in trouble.
Speaker 1:Just something I noticed and the influence of the Bay Terrace. I guess corridor, whatever you want to call it is when Tom Suozzi's last election New York Congressional District won. He won by 12,000 votes and he won the Nassau portion by 2,000 votes, which is nothing. He won the Queens part by over 10,000. And most of those votes came from Bay Terrace Right.
Speaker 2:And we never let Tom forget it.
Speaker 1:One thing the President's Council has been very adept at and I think of course your relationship with electeds is a big part of it is parlaying co-op constituency into a political movement or a legislative advocacy movement. So why don't you speak to that and how you see that going?
Speaker 2:I think that a really large part of the problem is that our lawmakers, both in the city and the state. They don't understand co-ops and condos and especially co-ops. They don't understand co-ops, they don't understand co-op governance, they don't understand how we operate, and that's been part of our job is to try to educate them I, I remember, warren, you and I were in a uh zoom meeting with linda lee.
Speaker 1:She literally sat there with a pencil and pad and curtis lee were too, I remember, and we were explaining, uh, co-op housing and whatever issues we're probably talking about, the, the particulars of, and vicky paladino, I remember her too, yes, and whatever issues we're probably talking about, the, the particulars of, and Vicki Palladino, I remember her too, yes, and and we, we became, and Warren, of course, we became their, their, their source, and that's a big part of our, of our outreach is to and it. I mean, I'll take Cuomo as for an example, we hosted the governor and it turned out that mostly the board presidents, you know, explained to him their problems and he didn't know it because it doesn't make the news, you know, it's not exciting, it's not front page of the Post, and that's a big part of what, warren, you brought to the, you brought to the interactions you brought with the elected officials. What is your relationship with the elected officials in your area?
Speaker 2:I take great pride in the fact that I have fantastic, excellent relationships with elected officials on both sides of the aisle, okay, whether they're Democrats, republicans. Ed Braunstein, we know Ed Braunstein has absolutely been a champion for us in Albany. Toby Stavitsky has been amazing. You know Tom Suozzi has supported us. On the other side of the aisle we have Vicky Palladino. I mean, I can't.
Speaker 2:When Vicki came into office she did not know a lot about co-ops and condos and she sat down and she listened to us and she is one of the people in the city council who she really, really fights for us. Also, the minority leader, joanne Areola she's a wonderful friend to the co-op and condo community and, as I said, we have good relationships with them and we try to work with both sides of the aisle, which I've been able to do, and I think I do that successfully. And you know some of these people. We actually I actually consider them to be friends. But that's important that you can have those type of conversations and when you have a private conversation, you can be honest with the person and you know that they're not going to get insulted, be offended and suddenly say I'm never going to speak to you again. And it's important to have that type of open, honest relationship with these elected officials, and I think we do as board president what keeps you up at?
Speaker 2:night. I've said before, I've been doing this now for 25, 26 years I've been board president, which you know, aside from everything else, shows that I'm a glutton for punishment. But local law 97, that's the one that keeps me up at night. And when I speak to my colleagues at other co-ops, they say the same exact thing. We have no idea how we're going to pay for this. We have no idea how our shareholders are going to pay for this.
Speaker 1:What is it looking like in terms of the effect on your co-op dollar-wise?
Speaker 2:looking like in terms of the effect on your co-op dollar-wise. So you know, we've tried to crunch the numbers a little bit. And you know the city they want us to make modifications to our heating plants and our lighting plants and mostly the heating plants, and they're looking for us to electrify the heating plants and they're looking to, uh, for us to electrify, um, and what that means is going to a system of heat pumps. So the problem with that is, first of all, for my co-op, it would probably cost us about um, maybe 10 million, 15 million dollars to do that, um, and we have 200 shareholders. So, you know, do the math divide that 10 15 million dollars by 200 people? Well, how. So, you know, do the math divide that $10, $15 million by 200 people? Well, how can anybody afford that?
Speaker 2:But more importantly is that you know the electrification and the pumps. They're not ready for prime time. They're not ready for prime time. Okay, right here in Bay Terrace, where we have these 18, 19 co-ops and condos, if everybody was to suddenly go electrify, get rid of their heating plants, get rid of their oil, gas, whatever they're using, and go to heat pumps and everybody flips a switch, puts them on at the same time, you know what's going to happen they're going to have a blackout.
Speaker 2:They're going to have a blackout, absolutely going to have a blackout. We're going to have a blackout, absolutely going to have a blackout. This is what the city wants us to do and it doesn't make any sense. And if we don't do that, we have really draconian penalties that they want to impose on us. You know, I can't think of any law that ever has had those type of penalties imposed on people who violate the law. I mean, you could, you know you could go in and rob a store and you're not subjected to such severe penalties. So there's simply no way for most co-ops and condos, especially one like mine. I mean, we're almost 70 years old now. How do we upgrade all our systems? And I don't have the answer to that, and you know we're not the only ones in this boat. So this is a law that I would absolutely like to see this law change. As a matter of fact, local Law 97 should never have been passed, but it is. It's here. I'd like to see it be changed and I would like to see the way it's funded be changed.
Speaker 2:I think that the entities, the corporations that created this problem, this climate problem and I believe in climate change, I'm not a climate denier but these companies, such as Con Ed. They should be the ones to pay for it. They should be the ones to pay to fix it. Don't put that cost on the backs of middle income, working class people who can't afford it and who didn't create the problem. Whenever we use when we use our automobiles, when we use appliances in our home that's because Con Ed marketed those appliances. They marketed the electric. It's the big auto companies that they marketed their automobiles.
Speaker 1:And what are some of the suggested changes or reforms that the president's council and yourself are advocating with city hall?
Speaker 2:So we, you know we have the intro in the city council. There are some bills pending in the city council and one of them would change the way the square footage is calculated. Change the way the square footage is calculated because right now it's based on if you have a square footage of over 25,000 features, you have to be in compliance with Local Law 97. Well, if you take my co-op and a lot of co-ops like mine, we have large amounts of green space, we have campus areas, large green space, so that green space should be counted in our square footage. And if that was to happen, of course. So now, just as an example, say, they're basing my square footage on 100,000 square feet. Well, my square footage now might be based on 250,000 square feet, which of course lowers my carbon footprint and would lower any penalties I might have, and that possibly could even put us in compliance right away.
Speaker 1:Just for clarification. The Green Act doesn't count the green space.
Speaker 2:That's correct, right, okay.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, Richard.
Speaker 4:So I have a question for both Jeff and Warren, which is has anybody thought of an eighth amendment challenge to the law under the excessive fines clause?
Speaker 2:Well, we actually did that, and not only that, we went to court. Okay, so there was a lawsuit that was brought and myself and Bob Friedrich we were the only two plaintiffs who were willing to step forward and go ahead with this lawsuit. There was also one other, a mixed-use building, a commercial building in Maiden Lane in Manhattan. So there were three of us. Nobody else wanted any part of it. They didn't want to put their name out front. We did. This was probably about two years ago and we had a funder.
Speaker 2:I'm not at liberty to say who funded the lawsuit. Our attorney was Randy Masco, who is now one of the deputy mayors he was the deputy mayor under Giuliani and we went all the way up to the Court of Appeals. The Court of Appeals, they dismissed the case. But you know, it's still somewhat impressive that we were able to get that far, because in New York State the Court of Appeals is the equivalent to the Supreme Court of the United States. There's no place higher to go. So we made it all the ways up to the top with that. But we did, we did, we did go that route, richard. We, we brought the lawsuit and, unfortunately, you know, the judge dismissed dismissed that.
Speaker 1:OK, so I want to get to the heavy duty serious portion of the podcast. We're going to call it the lightning round. Ok, short answers, Warren.
Speaker 4:So what's your favorite thing to do in Queens?
Speaker 2:Favorite thing that I like about Queens, of course, is the diversity.
Speaker 1:Of course, diversity. Next question.
Speaker 4:What's your favorite pizza place in Queens?
Speaker 2:Okay, so difficult. Right now I have two favorites. One of them is right here in Bay Terrace, rose's Pizza, and it's a new pizza place opened up right near Clearview Gardens. Parla, parla, wonderful pizza, yes.
Speaker 4:All right, morning person or night owl.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely morning.
Speaker 4:Morning. Okay, how early is early? Oh, 530?. Okay, what is the one thing you wish every co-op shareholder knew, right this second, that they probably don't know that they should.
Speaker 2:Well, I would like them to know how hard their board of directors work, that we take that job really seriously. And you know we don't just make decisions, you know, without giving it a lot of thought. How be your interest that nobody would know?
Speaker 4:that you actually were engaged in. We don't just make decisions, you know, without giving it a lot of thought. How be your?
Speaker 2:interest that nobody would know that you actually were engaged in Um. Well, I'd like to um.
Speaker 4:I'd like to collect the photos of Snoopy Ah there was a guy on channel three and a whole Snoopy collection.
Speaker 2:I'll talk to you about that. I love to collect the photos of.
Speaker 4:Snoopy and yeah, yeah, all right, this is this is kind of a loaded question Mets or Yankees or Dodgers, because if you're from Brooklyn, that's a possibility too.
Speaker 2:The Brooklyn Dodgers are first because the team in LA they're a bunch of imposters, but absolutely the Mets, Absolutely the Mets.
Speaker 2:Favorite neighborhood restaurant restaurant, okay, so again the favorite. I just have to name a couple. We have, uh, again, right in Whitestone, uh, utopia Bagels, yep, okay. And then we have um, going into Bayside, we have the, uh, the French workshop, which is coffee and pastry wonderful place. And in Bayside there's a place called Belly Cake Pancake House and it is simply amazing. They have pancakes in more varieties than you could think of. They have a banana, brulee, s'mores and, you know, strawberries with cream, and it's a hidden gem in this community.
Speaker 4:I'm going to ask one that's not on the list. Favorite place that's not on the list, favorite place that's no longer in existence?
Speaker 2:Favorite place that's no longer in existence. There was a Chinese restaurant in the Bay Terrace Shopping Center. It was called Joy Tian and Joy Island. Wonderful, wonderful food, and I miss them.
Speaker 1:I got one Beatles or Rolling Stones.
Speaker 2:Who, beatles or Rolling Stones? That's really it. It depends on the song, but I'll go with the Beatles, but I think Mick Jagger is is amazing. So.
Speaker 1:All right, warren, this was fantastic. We, I, I Snoopy, I mean that. That's my takeaway. In fact, when we put, when we post this online.
Speaker 4:Online we might actually we won't have your headshot. We'll have a picture of Snoopy. Put a picture of Snoopy up. Everyone loves Snoopy, richard. Any final thoughts? I just want to thank Warren, because there is an army of unrecognized heroes out there and I think that army needs to be acknowledged. And I'll do that on behalf of the people who aren't saying it, because both of you guys are doing tireless yeoman's work for the good of so many families and hardworking, regular people. You know, if you look at it look, I know co-ops really well and if you look at it, they're all just hardworking people. They keep their neighborhoods clean, they worry about crime, they want their kids to go to school, get them there on time, and if it wasn't for your efforts on those people's behalf, their lives would not be as comfortable as they are.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Richard.
Speaker 1:I also want to add that, again, warren and I I mean we have a, at this point, a generation of experience together, at least beyond my expectations, and whenever you meet electeds or you're in a meeting, they always acknowledge each other and they stand up and they clap for each other. Co-presidents, don't do that for each other. Co-presidents don't do that. They don't acknowledge each other. But they should, because all of you are volunteers and, and you know, as I said last episode, all politics are local and there's nothing more local than than the walls you live in and, warren, your, your, your, your care, your, your energy has changed a lot of lives. We didn't even mention the groundless issue. We're going to have you back. We'll just carve out a bunch of issues and we'll talk about Snoopy a lot more, but, warren, I want to thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2:If you have any final thoughts, yeah, well, jeff, I just want to thank you. Richard, I want to thank you. You know this was a lot of fun and I'm honored to have been your inaugural guest on this podcast. I know it's going to be well-received. And you talk about the other co-op board members and presidents, and I've often said that my colleagues, the other board presidents, these are probably the smartest people I know. They are Right now. I want them to understand that too, that the people who serve them volunteers, without pay give their time. These are really smart people and you should once in a while, you know, pass them on the street or on your property and say thank you All right, warren.
Speaker 1:thanks again. We are out of time at this point. I just want to say thank you to Warren Schreiber, president of the presidents, for his time, for opening up a little bit. I learned a lot more about him. I know Warren a long time and it was terrific to hear from you and anybody listening. Thank you for listening to the Call Up and Condo Insider. We have a world of shows ahead running the gamut. I've already gotten people calling me wanting to be on the show, wanting to tell their stories, from elected officials to former elected officials to maintenance workers, to engineers, accountants, on and on, so we can hear the stories behind the scenes inside the co-op world. Thank you for listening and have a good day and we'll see you at the next episode.