The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Co-op & Condo Insider is your trusted source for expert commentary led by advocates within New York City’s co-op and condo world. Each episode offers insights into the challenges, news, and stories that shape a community making up more than 20% of this great city’s residents.
The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Hidden Challenges of Co-op Financing in NYC's Evolving Market
The complex world of co-op financing has become even more challenging in recent years, with Fannie Mae requirements creating significant hurdles for buildings, boards, and buyers alike. In this eye-opening conversation, mortgage banking expert Zahra Jafri pulls back the curtain on what's really happening behind the scenes when co-op loans get denied.
Zahra, founder of Lynx Mortgage Bank and president of the Mortgage Bankers Association, brings decades of industry experience to explain why so many co-op buildings are struggling with financing eligibility. Since the Surfside condo collapse in Florida, requirements have tightened dramatically – from mandatory reserve funds equal to 10% of annual maintenance to engineer inspection reports that many management companies resist sharing.
What makes this situation particularly frustrating is the communication gap between co-ops and Fannie Mae. As our hosts point out, it's like "a bad game of telephone," with building boards unable to directly address compliance issues with the ultimate authority. Meanwhile, shareholders bear the consequences when their apartments become difficult or impossible to sell.
The conversation delves into specific requirements that trip up many buildings: financial reporting deadlines that consistently expire before new reports are ready, insurance coverage that must now include full replacement costs and inflation guards, and Department of Buildings violations that can instantly make a building ineligible for conventional financing.
For board members, management companies, and individual shareholders, understanding these new realities is crucial. As Zahra notes, "Just because something becomes ineligible for financing doesn't mean it stays there" – but addressing these issues requires awareness, planning, and sometimes significant financial investment from buildings already facing rising costs.
Ready to learn what your board or management company might not be telling you about your building's financing status? Listen now for insights that could protect your most valuable investment.
From the management side and the co-op side. You know, fannie Mae is a complete mystery. There's no consistency, there's no place to turn, and you could ask the same question to five lenders and get five different answers.
Speaker 3:This is the Co-op and Condo Insider, the podcast dedicated to New York's cooperative and condominium communities. This is your trusted source for the latest insights, strategies and stories shaping the world of shared housing. You will hear from the people who are leaders in this community information and insights you will not hear anywhere else. If you want to stay ahead of the curve, you're in the right place. The views and opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of the host or any affiliated individuals or organizations do not necessarily reflect those of the host or any affiliated individuals or organizations.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Co-op and Condo Insider, where we explore the real world issues facing co-op and condo communities across New York City with insight, expertise and a healthy dose of straight talk. I'm your host, jeffrey Maisel. I'm a co-op attorney and legal advisor to the President's Co-op and Condo Council. I'm thrilled to be joined by my co-host, richard Solomon. A seasoned voice in public radio for over 20 years, richard has taken his listeners around the world to meet experts, newsmakers and the people making a real difference in our everyday lives. Richard, great to have you on the mic with us today.
Speaker 4:It is always an honor and a privilege to be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:All right. And today we have an incredible guest and Richard, we're going to go to a place I don't think any of us have ever gone. It's called Manitoba. I would like to welcome our guest, zahra Jafri. Before I introduce Zahra, I just want to say that the co-op and condo lending world suffered a tragic loss on Saturday when Kevin Krugshank, the national sales strategy support manager for JPMorgan Chase, was in a tragic accident on his bicycle in Chinatown in New York City. I worked with Kevin for many years on many issues and some of the issues we're actually going to be speaking about today, so we wish his family well and may his memory be a blessing. So, getting back to Zara, zara is the leader and founder and visionary of Lynx Mortgage Bank. She started this business in 1989, and she has been working in real estate in the mortgage industry ever since. She is a past president of the New York Association of Mortgage Brokers, as well as the Empire State Mortgage Bankers Association, and currently serves as vice president of the Mortgage Bankers Association. President president.
Speaker 1:Welcome aboard. Did I miss any presidents?
Speaker 2:I'm president of the Mortgage Bankers Association.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you have to update your website. Sorry, just saying All right. So why don't you tell us about Manitoba and how somebody goes from Manitoba to Post Avenue in Westbury? Because I can't say it's a common journey.
Speaker 2:So I moved to New York when I got married, because Mohammed's family was here and he was settling here. So that's how I came from Manitoba here. I've lived longer in New York than Manitoba.
Speaker 1:When was the first time you came to New York City?
Speaker 2:Oh, every summer oh sorry, entirely.
Speaker 1:Did you have family here as a kid?
Speaker 2:Friends. Parents had friends, parents had family.
Speaker 1:So yes, and why was your family in Manitoba? If you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 2:Because my father in 1960 came from East Pakistan to do his master's.
Speaker 4:And was he a teacher To Winnipeg, Manitoba?
Speaker 2:And he stayed. Was he a professor? Professional electrical engineer? Oh, stayed. Was he a professor? Professional electrical engineer? Oh, wow, yeah, interesting story. He worked for Manitoba Hydro.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I do know in the work I do that hydroelectric power is coming to New York City from Quebec.
Speaker 2:Yes, and my dad used to go to Quebec every year when they were building those plants.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, eventually a fun fact for me and probably no one else New York City is going to be getting 15 to 20% of their energy from the Quebec hydroelectric plant. Wow, all things being equal. So let's get into a little more background. How did you get started in mortgage banking?
Speaker 2:So I got started in mortgage. Initially I started out doing mortgage as a mortgage broker. You know I was working in a law firm my Muhammad Jafri's law firm and helping, just trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up. And his clients would call and say, and I need a mortgage, or you know he was representing them and they needed financing or help with financing. So I thought, oh, I could do that. So I started inquiring. I reached out to the bank New York State Department it's now Financial Services, but it used to be the banking department and they told me, you know, I had to work under a license for one year until I could put the registration into my own name. So I did that for one year, hooked up with Greenpoint and Citibank Power Express program, and that was it, and then just started walking up and down middle neck road visiting real estate offices we must have met along the way I know uh we have.
Speaker 2:It's a long run you were next to the subway on metal neck road and great so, but literally, would just you know, go walk, say hi, I'm doing mortgages, and send me your deals, and that's essentially how I got started.
Speaker 2:So you started out as a mortgage broker and did that until 2003 and then applied to convert to banker in 2004, became Lynx Mortgage Bank. So we were Lynx Equities, then became Lynx Mortgage Inc and then converted to Lynx Mortgage Bank. So we were Lynx Equities, then became Lynx Mortgage Inc and then converted to Lynx Mortgage Bank in 2004. So I've been banking ever since.
Speaker 1:All right, here's a question that everyone's not everyone, but people think about but never can ask what is the difference between a mortgage broker and a mortgage banker?
Speaker 2:So a mortgage broker essentially arranges loans through third parties. So a person would apply with the broker and then the broker then takes that loan and applies to one, two, three lenders, depending on the need, and they would process the loan and do much of the work and then close. A banker is we are using our own funds. I'm a direct lender licensed in New York, Florida, Texas. I'm not a depository institution, I'm a mortgage lender. So it's we're underwriting the file, we're taking the reps and warrants. A broker cannot make a credit decision. Bankers make the credit decision and we close in our name. We use our own funds, much of which is warehouse lines, and then thereafter, once the loan closes at some point, we are packaging up our pipelines and selling them to the secondary market.
Speaker 1:So how did you make the decision? Because that's quite a different, that's quite a leap.
Speaker 2:So I, very early when I started doing the brokering, I knew I wanted to get into the banking space. But you know it takes time. And then I was very active. As you mentioned, I was president of the New Association Mortgage Broker, so I was very active. As you mentioned, I was president of the Union Association of Mortgage Brokers. So I was very active in that space, lobbying, going to Washington, working on bills, just being an advocate for my industry, and I really saw that the industry was changing, wasn't very broker friendly, was changing, wasn't very broker friendly. It wasn't.
Speaker 2:You know, I really thought that it made sense to bank in the long run. So I'll never forget, I came back from a trip to DC lobbying and I said you know what, I think the time is now. So we did it in 2004 and we all know what happened four years later. Brokers really kind of got out there. Thankfully they're back in the game. I mean, they're not as prevalent. There isn't a lot of third-party originations compared to previous you know previous previous years but there's still a need, um.
Speaker 1:But for me it just made more sense to move into that space so I I know from and we're talking about 2008 now co-ops were that were not hit that hard because they they vet their buyers more rigorously than banks do. And that was the first time I realized that, because when I started in this business, and you know, in the eighties and nineties, co-op boards sometimes would say, oh, the bank approved them, we should too. But that gradually started changing and now, since 2008, I think everyone's on the same page.
Speaker 2:Right and more than just being more rigorous, it was always a requirement to have minimum 20% down. There are very few buildings that will allow the 10% down and having that additional equity I think, especially during 2008, helped a lot because people weren't underwater for the most part. Were you doing subprime loans? We did not do them. We really stuck to basics Can a person afford to make the payment? Based our credit decisions on whether people could repay the loan, ability to repay, which is a key factor when you're looking at a mortgage. You know we never did the no income product, the 100% financing with 6% concessions, so essentially you're 106% financing. We look to make sure there was equity.
Speaker 2:I mean we did all the first time homebuyer programs, FHA, three and a half percent down, five percent down. If you're a veteran, we have all these programs but end of the day, there has to be an ability for people to pay back their loans.
Speaker 1:You know, we never allowed our clients, so you came out relatively clean or unscathed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we were suffering from general economic surroundings and what was going on in the market. But you know we didn't have bad loans. We didn't have borrowers who were coming back to us and saying you did this loan for us, we didn't. We're having borrowers come back and say you told me not to do this loan and I did it anyway. Can you help me now? Sorry, no.
Speaker 1:Well, I, I know sitting at the table as as a real estate lawyer in those years and I would I would see these hundreds, hundreds. It was 103% loans. Um again, as you said, no income verification have to. I once went to one closing and I'm not even sure the borrower was the person she said she was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that was a whole other problem too.
Speaker 1:I think things got completely out of control and, and I did notice in you know, prior to 2008, mortgage brokers started getting much more active in a bad way, and, yes, I mean unfortunately it was. You know, everyone who did bad things were complicit. But I literally walked away from a table once because it was a broker, it was their title company and the buyer didn't have the right idea. And the title company said I'll, I'll notarize. I said I'm out of here, I'm not getting involved.
Speaker 2:A lot of things went on and, unfortunately, the whole entire industry and country suffered as a result, and now new regulations are in place and there's all sorts of requirements. I think, long run, it's the best way to do it.
Speaker 1:So what is the core business right now of Lynx? Is it commercial, is it residential?
Speaker 2:So, like I said, we're a residential, direct residential lender. The commercial division is that we do broker, only Small. It makes use. I put on my balance sheet but for the most part it's all one to four family, co-op and condo, investment property, second homes. Majority of my business is in New York and I'd say about 25% of my business is co-ops and condos. How did you build the co-op?
Speaker 1:and condo side.
Speaker 2:Just you know, being where being my location, my office was in Great Neck. There's a lot of co-ops in Great Neck and then many of my clients were working in Manhattan buying apartments in Manhattan. So it was just you know, my business is all referral based, so really just having clients purchase co-ops and condos and just organically, through the years, management companies refer us attorneys. So you know, they know that Lynx knows how to put together co-op applications, put together um, put our clients in position where we know whether they can buy in this building or not, what are the pros and cons of each building, just from experience. So it really just evolved over the years.
Speaker 4:Is there a particular challenge that co-ops present that other kinds of housing doesn't?
Speaker 2:So whenever anybody's purchasing a co-op, the biggest thing is you know you're not buying real estate, you're buying shares of a corporation, right? And so that's the one thing I think sometimes people have to understand. And then with that there's three sets of approvals. So a the borrower, if getting a mortgage, needs to be approved by the lender by links, hopefully and then they have to get approved by the co-op board, but then the buildings financials also need to be approved by the lender, and that, especially in recent times, the last two years, has become very strict and very time-consuming, and one of the biggest challenges with co-ops today is just the management companies not complying with all the updated co-op and condo requirements that Fannie and Freddie have put into place.
Speaker 1:So I will tell you from sort of the other side and you know we call this the co-op and condo insider, and we really appreciate your insight today because from the management side and the co-op side, you know Fannie Mae is a complete mystery and there's no consistency, there's no place to turn and you could ask the same question to five lenders and get five different answers.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what are some key issues that co-ops face with Fannie Mae compliance today? What is Fannie Mae compliance?
Speaker 2:Let's explain what Fannie Mae does. So Fannie Mae sets out a set of regulations that we have to abide by for every loan, whether it's a co-op or a condo.
Speaker 1:Fannie Mae guarantees the loan Is that.
Speaker 2:Well, they are regulators and they ultimately service the loan. So if a loan isn't going to comply with Fannie Mae guidelines, then it won't get purchased by any investor.
Speaker 1:And is that?
Speaker 2:a portfolio loan. Then it becomes a portfolio loan and those are more expensive for a consumer. But first the borrower needs to comply with Fannie Mae guidelines. So income assets, credit, all have to fit into the regs that are set forth For co-op and condos, and I'll just specifically talk for now about co-ops. They have to have two years financials without showing losses. We have to have a questionnaire completed which asks about, you know, four pages of information pertaining to occupancy, insurance requirements, requirements, reserves, how many units are owned by sponsors. So you know, some of the biggest challenges we have today is that buildings do not have enough money in reserves.
Speaker 1:They what, what, what, what is you know what's a recommended amount or what is the?
Speaker 2:regulatory amount. What is required is 10% reserve of the overall maintenance.
Speaker 1:So? So if the annual maintenance is a million dollars, yeah, they have to have they have to have a hundred thousand dollars Correct. And what if?
Speaker 2:oddly enough, you know many co-op buildings do not have it, you know. So you know the questionnaire we'll ask about the ground lease. The ground lease has to be exceed 30 the term of the loan plus five years. So, jeff, we went through many deals where ground leases were expiring within 25 years of today, so people couldn't get fixed a 30-year fixed mortgage which is still a big problem with many co-ops.
Speaker 1:yes, and, and that'll be a separate episode.
Speaker 2:Right, so leaseholds the status of the project. How many units are owned by a sponsor? You know sponsors can't own more than a specific percentage. What is that percentage? It depends on how many units, so like let's say that there's five to 10, five to 20 units. To you, the sponsor can't own more than two units. So it's like a percentage based off the number of share units that are held.
Speaker 1:Manhattan and one of the hospitals was the sponsor and they, so that was was that a condo?
Speaker 2:Was the hospital a condo?
Speaker 1:I don't remember, but yeah, these were condos, yeah, okay, and and they rented them out to doctors and the loan got denied. I'm like only the federal government can figure it, figure out a way to deny the easiest loan ever.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's really so. 10% of reserves. So Fannie Mae typically expects 10% of annual budget allocated to reserves for future capital expenditures. And then operating losses over the last two years has been tremendous and that's primarily because of the. After that building in Florida collapsed, you know co-ops are now required to do engineers inspections and report, have reports pertaining to critical repairs or deferred maintenance. And many, many buildings have identified that through through inspections, that their buildings are in need of much repair and much is critical and there's tremendous deferred maintenance in much of these buildings so up due to them having to put in these repairs because, specifically in the city of new york, where the repairs weren't done, they're getting violations so they've drained their bank accounts, fixing the properties and now they now they're showing losses for two years in a row to bring their buildings up to par do you find there are more buildings out of compliance yes, fannie Mae than there used to be?
Speaker 1:Yes, is this a pervasive problem?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:How does this compare to, let's say, 10 years ago?
Speaker 2:So 10 years ago we didn't have as strict of a reserve requirement. So that's a hard question for me to answer. For me to answer. But you know we could. We could lend in buildings if there was pending litigation, as long as we got an attorney opinion letter that said you know, this lawsuit is frivolous, et cetera. But now we really can't get letters like that anymore.
Speaker 1:So from again from the perspective of the co-op, the bar keeps getting higher and higher.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 2:But our biggest challenge today is getting the board's management companies to give us a copy of the engineer's inspection, which we are required to have, and the reason for this is they want to see in writing that there's no critical repair or the building has not been deemed unsafe.
Speaker 4:I have a question. Yeah, a place like Clearview Gardens, for example, has multiple corporations. So do you look at all of Clearview? We have to. So even if you're buying into, say, the first corporation of Clearview, do you have to look at all the other things to see if there's a problem?
Speaker 2:Well, it's going to depend how see that the garage is the common space and they have the garage, if I'm not mistaken, under a separate corporation.
Speaker 1:No no no, the garages are.
Speaker 2:Same building.
Speaker 1:They're garden apartments.
Speaker 2:So in that instance, no, we would just go by the corporation for that building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so basically, the rules of the game have changed Correct, and it's hurting a lot of co-. The game have changed, correct, and it's hurting a lot of co-ops and condos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like one of the other things you have to ask special assessments. Are there any special assessments and what are the special assessments for been put in place for most buildings to either fund the work that needs to be done or recover the fund that was now showing losses, like to build back the reserves and their bank accounts. Let's say a building is showing losses for two years in a row. As long as we see that a special assessment was put in and that the building will start to recover in 2026, then most likely we'll get a Fannie Mae approval for the building.
Speaker 1:So is there a way to get an exception to you?
Speaker 2:can apply for waivers Haven't had a waiver in over a year for critical repair and or reserve requirements.
Speaker 1:Wow. So how would a building know? If they're deemed ineligible, can they check themselves, or does it have to be they can check themselves.
Speaker 2:You know, if a building has active violations on the DOB site and those violations are connected to any type of critical repair and or deferred maintenance that building, or if they have an evacuation notice for repair, they're not getting a mortgage finding a mortgage right now until that's resolved.
Speaker 1:Okay, and again, my experience has know that there's a lot of violations that in reality are relatively minor, but it can be deemed a hazardous and dangerous condition right including uh late filing on local law uh 11 for that's a huge one.
Speaker 2:But you know what one of the things that we have to remember is just because something becomes ineligible for financing doesn't mean it stays there. We just resubmit the paperwork once things have all been rectified. And once things are rectified, they come off the list.
Speaker 1:In the meantime, you know, lives are ruined.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I think I'm being a little dramatic, but I'm allowed.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the things we've tried to do is educate management companies with the new requirements and what's required and then hope that the management companies will take that information and distribute it to all their project managers and all of their boards so that they, when they're having their board meetings, make proper voting decisions to keep their buildings in compliance, so that they don't have to face what many buildings are facing today. You know, the board, the management company is hired by the board. The management company needs to educate the board and then the board needs to make the proper decision to protect the shareholders. And I just don't see that happening. You know, I still get, still get. No, we won't give you the engineers inspection. We've never had to do this before. Well, rules change. Now you do. But what if there is no?
Speaker 2:inspection, which is very often and that's even worse because every building in new york city is required to do one now I see and within five years so so it's, it's, it's, it's a uh tremendous challenge every, every building.
Speaker 2:You know another big challenge we have is most buildings financials expire, you know, june 30th. Once a set of financials expire, the buildings, buildings you know their approval status falls out of approval status. So in order to get the building back approved status, we need 2024 financials, which, if 2023 financials are expiring June of 2024, why are we not? You know we're already two weeks into July and say about 50% of our transactions do not have their updated financials ready yet.
Speaker 1:Financials are notoriously late.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that doesn't help in this environment, right?
Speaker 1:No, I'm saying you know. Just what I'm gathering from this conversation is Fannie Mae has completely upped their game in terms of standards, correct, and the co-op and condo world that we know in New York City is slow to adapt, not always because they don't want to, but, um, you know, they might not have the money. Or again, if there's a violation on the building new york city, removing a violation sometimes a lot harder than getting it, um so uh, and they're all subject to numerous, numerous unfunded mandates. The DOB Department of Buildings is more aggressive than ever.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And it's become a much tougher environment both in terms of New York City regulations and, of course, mortgage compliance.
Speaker 2:Just like, for example, insurance. Now you have to have full replacement costs. Most buildings do not have sufficient insurance, um, they don't um have a significant enough, sufficient amount of you know or you know uh, crime insurance for their board and their management companies Umbrella.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then they don't have an inflation guard. That's the new thing that all buildings are required to have an inflation guard on top of their insurance. Now, yeah, it's costly, it costs money. But when you do have situations where buildings have collapsed in you know Florida and then we just had a garage collapse in New York City a year ago You've got buildings that the damage was so severe due to deferred maintenance that they evacuated two, three floors and now the insurance company has to cover the cost to put those people into hotels until the work can be completed and they can go back into their properties.
Speaker 1:Um, they need insurance you see, my perspective is that those, those are two exceptional circumstances. Surfside condo was built on very swampy soft earth, and manhattan is is bedrock, and the the garage on Ann Street in New York City just completely-.
Speaker 2:No, I agree.
Speaker 1:Overloaded the garage. I'll give an example Now, new York City a co-ops and condos garages are subject to inspection annual or biannual inspection, very expensive to comply with. Including in that are garages that are on the ground floor of a building, which makes no sense because and also like as we were talking about a place like Clearview Gardens, where they're separate structures but those are also now subject to.
Speaker 2:New York City inspection. Well, that's a big one, structural safety.
Speaker 1:Well, I, I find, yeah, I mean my experience too, has been uh, the buildings are adapting. Um bigger issue, or the more difficult, is um that the co-ops can't directly deal with fannie mae, it's got to go through lenders and it's like a bad game of telephone, the old game telephone.
Speaker 2:It is a very frustrating process.
Speaker 1:And there's not very good communication. And I did have the experience where we had to engage an elected official, tom Swasey, a Congress member, on an issue where Fannie Mae was just.
Speaker 2:They were wrong, they they yeah, they reported on the wrong building.
Speaker 1:We were involved, remember yeah, yeah, so we did get a personal meeting. They were very nice. Right, here's an organization. I can never get one person to ever return my call or anything or even identify themselves. And we had a zoom meeting. We had like 20 of them on the meeting. So so, all right, now that we've depressed everybody about the state of the mortgage market, um, no, it's not that bad.
Speaker 2:I know, I know, I, I it's a cumbersome process, right, but the thing is you really also have to understand how it it works. So we, when we take on a co-op transaction, we look, look ahead of time and see you know when are all the documents expiring, how long are they good for. We get the insurance immediately and we know right away, like I try to inform all of my management companies of what's required for specific buildings. If I know that there is a specific issue, then it's up to the board. If they choose not to do it, then the shareholders won't be able to sell to somebody who needs a mortgage.
Speaker 1:Well, one of the reasons we invited you, zara, is obviously for your expertise, but also having dealt with you directly, thank you. Part of this process now, where things that, like we said, used to be cookie cutter aren't so, you do need expertise from the lending side to help navigate a building's eligibility or helping them get an exception. All right. So, Rich, do you have the?
Speaker 4:I have the lightning round, but I want to go off script, if that's okay.
Speaker 1:No, off script. Rich loves to jam I love to All right.
Speaker 4:So you're from westbury, so which venue do you like better? The space or the westbury music fair, or which is your favorite concert from either one in recent times?
Speaker 2:the. I haven't gone to the space in a while, so option two all right, I saw it right before he died.
Speaker 1:I saw Don Rickles. Nice With my dad at Westbury Music Fair. I high-fived him on the way down.
Speaker 4:Most surprising thing about working in mortgage banking that the ordinary person would not guess how many physical hours go into a transaction. That's very true. People think things just happen.
Speaker 1:People see that fee and they go. What did they do?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 4:What would you say is a really important piece of advice for co-op members to have that they don't necessarily know right now that they should know.
Speaker 2:I think they should know what the actual current situation is pertaining to deferred maintenance and the safety and soundness of their buildings.
Speaker 4:Okay, and the final question is if you had to go on a dream vacation, where would you go?
Speaker 1:And you can't say and would it?
Speaker 4:and would it involve a co-op?
Speaker 2:Oh, I would Airbnb a co-op, but you're not allowed to Airbnb a co-op. No, no, dream vacation Ireland. I don't know.
Speaker 1:We'll say Ireland.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I don't really have a just being able to go on vacations a dream right now, right. With emails and cell phones and zoom meetings and there's no specific place, I would say oh my god, I would love to go there. You know, just whatever makes sense I got an easy one.
Speaker 4:Last easy question ready, favorite podcast this one.
Speaker 2:All right, thank you for the opportunity. All right, thank you for the opportunity. Jeff Rich, thank you for the opportunity. Great to meet you. I really enjoy thinking about our challenges and how to move forward in this crazy environment.
Speaker 1:We appreciate it, anybody listening. You can go on the Lynx Mortgage website to learn more about Fannie Mae compliance and any questions you may have. Of course, you can contact Zara or anyone else there who who handles these kinds of issues. As far as we're concerned, we're out of time. I want to thank Rich for joining me and we look forward to our next episode, which we're going to have another fascinating guest and interesting topic. Again, thank you very much and everybody have a good day.