The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Co-op & Condo Insider is your trusted source for expert commentary led by advocates within New York City’s co-op and condo world. Each episode offers insights into the challenges, news, and stories that shape a community making up more than 20% of this great city’s residents.
The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Queens Bar Association: 150 Years of Legal Service and Community Support
When vulnerable residents can no longer manage their affairs, where do co-op and condo communities turn for help? This compelling conversation with Queens Bar Association President Kristen Dubowski offers practical guidance for one of the most challenging situations facing shared housing communities today.
Dubowski, who practices guardianship law alongside her role leading one of New York's oldest bar associations, walks listeners through the process of protecting residents who may be endangering themselves or others. From forgetting to pay maintenance to leaving stoves unattended, these situations require legal intervention through Article 81 guardianship proceedings. She explains how boards, management companies, or concerned neighbors can initiate this process, detailing the court evaluation, appointment procedures, and oversight that ensure vulnerable adults receive appropriate protection while maintaining their dignity.
Beyond guardianship matters, this episode explores the Queens Bar Association's multifaceted role supporting both attorneys and the general public. Founded nearly 150 years ago, the organization provides extensive continuing legal education programs, committee participation opportunities, and a valuable lawyer referral service connecting individuals with experienced attorneys. Particularly noteworthy is the association's impact on legislation affecting cooperative and condominium communities, with Dubowski noting that letters from the Bar Association carry significant weight with elected officials considering new laws.
The conversation offers a fascinating glimpse into how bar associations have evolved over generations while maintaining their core mission of service. As Dubowski puts it, "We want to provide attorneys with educational programming, support committees, inform attorneys on changes in the law, and create a place to collaborate and share ideas." For co-op and condo communities facing complex legal challenges, understanding these resources can make all the difference.
Tune in to discover how legal institutions like the Queens Bar Association can help your community navigate difficult situations with vulnerable residents while gaining valuable insights into the guardianship process that protects those who can no longer protect themselves.
I will tell you from personal experience. When an elected official is working on an issue that's either in committee in Albany or New York City or New York City Council, and they get a letter from the Bar Association, a memo in support or in opposition, it is influential and it is an extremely valuable service.
Speaker 2:This is the Co-op and Condo Insider, the podcast dedicated to New York's cooperative and condominium communities. This is your trusted source for the latest insights, strategies and stories shaping the world of shared housing. You will hear from the people who are leaders in this community information and insights you will not hear anywhere else. If you want to stay ahead of the curve, you're in the right place. The views and opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of the host or any affiliated individuals or organizations.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Corp and Condo Insider, where we explore the real-world issues facing Corp and Condominium communities across New York City with insight, expertise and a healthy dose of straight talk. Hello, I'm your host, jeffrey Maisel. I'm a cop attorney, legal advisor to the President's Cop and Condo Council and a proud member of the Queens Bar Association Figured I'd throw that in there Thrilled to be joined by my co-host, richard Solomon, who will be joining the Queens Bar Association after this session. A seasoned voice in public radio for over 20 years, richard has taken his listeners around the world to meet experts, newsmakers and the people making a real difference in our everyday lives. Richard, great to have you on the mic with me today.
Speaker 3:Always a pleasure and greetings.
Speaker 1:Well, so we have a special guest today. A lot of firsts for this person. She is Kristen Dubowski, the president of the Queens Bar Association. Welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. So, Kristen, let's go through some background. Tell us a bit about your legal background and your current practice.
Speaker 4:Sure. So I wanted to thank you again for inviting me on your podcast. I am so excited to be here and hopefully this podcast will be worth listening to for your listeners. I am an attorney. I practice at the Queens Volunteer Lawyers Project at the Queens County Bar Association. The Queens Volunteer Lawyers Project is a nonprofit organization associated with the Queens County Bar Association and I do foreclosure defense and consumer debt work with them. And then I'm fortunate that the Volunteer Lawyers Project is a nonprofit and my boss allows us to also maintain our own practice as well. So in my own practice I do guardianship work and estate planning, which I enjoy very much.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're actually helping people.
Speaker 4:I try.
Speaker 1:All right, Richard, that makes one of us. No, we appreciate your work. You were officially installed as the newest president last month with the Queens Bar Association. What inspired you to get involved in the Queens Bar?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've been president for a month now. It's been very exciting. It's been very exciting. I have been involved with the Bar Association pretty much since I started working at the Queens Volunteer Lawyers Project. I'm fortunate that our office was located in the Bar Association building and pre-pandemic. A lot of our Bar Association functions were held in person. So I was able to participate in a lot of the committee meetings and the CLEs that the Bar Association had, and the more that I participated in those events and I met Bar Association members and some of the board members, the more I wanted to get involved. Became chair of some committees and then I got on the board members, the more I wanted to get involved, became chair of some committees and then I got on the board and I've really enjoyed my time so far.
Speaker 1:What committees were you members of?
Speaker 4:I was chair of the Young Lawyers Committee for a while, until they told me that I was too old.
Speaker 1:There might be a lawsuit there, by the way.
Speaker 4:There might be a lawsuit there, by the way. Yeah, I enjoyed that committee very much. It's now chaired by Sydney Spinner and she's doing an amazing job, but the idea behind that committee was bringing in some newly admitted attorneys and law students and familiarizing them with the Bar Association and pairing them with more experienced practitioners. I also was chair of the Mentorship Committee, which is also kind of assisting newer, less experienced members, practitioners in developing relationships with experienced practitioners and helping them whether it's through speed judging event I'm sorry, speed networking events or just various happy hours helping them make connections with experienced practitioners and judges and helping them hone their networking skills.
Speaker 3:Quick question when is the Bar Association located and what's the website?
Speaker 4:So we recently moved. We were at our building for over 100 years, but we recently moved to 8814 Sutphin Boulevard on the third floor.
Speaker 1:Our website is wwwqcbaorg, so I was at your installation. It was very touching because the year before we had the chief judge of the Court of Appeals swear in the president, and for you we had your father Tell us how that came about.
Speaker 4:Thank you for attending. I'm glad you could join. Historically, the presidents have been sworn in by judges and the immediate past president, zenith Taylor. That was the case for her too, and she had an amazing installation. I have learned a lot from my dad's an attorney, and I have learned a lot from him, and I felt strongly that I wanted him to be the one to install me, and I was lucky that when I asked the executive director and the committee if that would be okay, they all embraced that idea, and so I didn't know he would be installing everyone. I just thought he'd be installing me. I think he was surprised by that too, but he was able to install me for my term as president, and he gave a nice speech as well, talking about how he's seen me grow as an attorney, and it was a lovely night.
Speaker 1:It was. It was very different and we all enjoyed seeing what a touching ceremony it was. So, coming back to the Queens Bar, what is the mission? What does the Queens Bar Association do? What is its mission and what is its purpose?
Speaker 4:The Queens County Bar Association is an organization meant to serve the attorneys of Queens. We want to provide the attorneys with educational programming, support committees that they're looking for to share their expertise, to learn, to inform the attorneys on any changes in the law or any updates, and a place to collaborate and share ideas and networking with attorneys, judges and even law students. So you mentioned education. So there is a CLE program, a continuing legal education program there together, and it's in collaboration with our committees and our committee chairs. We have chairs for each committee that we have through the Bar Association and we work together to put together educational programming that we think will help our attorneys grow, either ABC's introductory CLEs, which are teaching basics, which are good for newly admitted attorneys or experienced practitioners that are just looking for a refresher, or to learn a different practice area, and then we also have updates in certain practice areas, so for practitioners that are practicing in that area, that need to keep up on any new, something in September or October.
Speaker 1:And they're always extremely well attended. I mean, 50 to 100 people is not unusual, and we used to do it in the building, and even those were well attended, although there was food there. So I don't know if they were there for the food or for us.
Speaker 3:All right. Is the cost of the CLE included in the membership price?
Speaker 4:Yes, many of our CLEs are included. I'd say there's just a handful that are not, but that's one of the benefits of being a member is you get access to the CLEs. You can attend our CLEs for free and thank you for planning your upcoming CLE. We're looking forward to it. If, for some reason, you miss a CLE, we have a library of our pre-recorded CLEs that you can always contact us and have access to those as well.
Speaker 1:Do lawyers get credit for those?
Speaker 4:Yes, Do lawyers get credit for those? Yes, good to know. So if you're approaching your birthday and you need to get your credits before your re-registration, you can always contact the Bar Association and we'll put together a package of CLEs for you.
Speaker 3:Hey, jeff, go ahead.
Speaker 4:No, it's okay. We always make sure to have the required CLEs that you need for your registration, because that is constantly. There are new required CLEs that are being added, so we have all the ones you would need your ethics, your cybersecurity so we got you covered.
Speaker 3:Jeff, you know that you get I think you get triple credit for being an instructor.
Speaker 4:You do get extra credit for being an instructor.
Speaker 1:I am aware of that. We love doing it and it's a great chance to share our knowledge and you know, being a local practitioner and being a transfer agent for a lot of local co-ops, being a local practitioner and being a transfer agent for a lot of local co-ops, we are very friendly with a lot of local practitioners so I guess they always sign up and show support. So it's always a family affair for us, but we do look forward to it. With respect to the bar, we have a co-op show here, so I figured, know I try to wrap in some co-op issues.
Speaker 1:so you mentioned certain services that are provided legal services and I know, being a co-op attorney very often, uh, when a co-ops are usually uh, you know, have professional management, uh, professional attorneys and shareholders don't, and very shareholders very often are subjected to perhaps foreclosure proceedings, eviction proceedings and the like and they may need help or something, or they may be involved in a dispute with another shareholder, with the board. Is there something the Queens Bar offers people like you know, who don't, you know, who maybe need legal referrals, legal advice or something like that?
Speaker 4:Yes, we do. We have a lawyer referral service that anyone can contact to get contact information for an experienced attorney in that practice area. So anyone is able to contact the Bar Association. They would ask for the Lawyer Referral Service and then they can meet with that attorney and they would get a consultation and then going forward. Hopefully the attorney is able to take on that matter.
Speaker 1:Okay. Does the bar offer any mediation services?
Speaker 4:Not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1:Well, that's something we can talk about, because I think that's a need.
Speaker 4:That sounds like a good idea. We should talk. We want to fill the places where there is a need for help.
Speaker 1:I know I'm most go ahead, Richard.
Speaker 3:Isn't there a fee mediation program like a lawyer's fee mediation program?
Speaker 1:There probably is. I'm also a member of the New York City Bar and they had a very extensive mediation program. When there's a fee involved, people won't do it. Okay, plain and simple. In today's world with Zoom, mediations are easy. You don't have to go anywhere. I know certainly the neighbor disputes in the co-ops I represent. Sometimes it's included, like in my monthly retainer, um, and if you have a properly trained mediator, um, it always helps. You know it. Just I was, it's like, uh, what I was? It's like taking air out of the balloon kind of thing, and sometimes you're not going to walk out and they're not going to be best friends. But I think if they get a glimpse of the humanity of each other, it's been a success. So we can talk about that offline.
Speaker 4:I like that, I'd like to, and I appreciate what you're saying and I see how that could be successful.
Speaker 1:I think neighbor disputes are. You know it's pervasive, it's one of the. You know, when you have shared housing, it's one of the biggest problems you have and you know either the landlord's got to get involved or you know, and again, if people could go to an online service, so to speak, it might be something interesting. So maybe we'll sign Richard up to run that and once he joins we'll go from there. So you mentioned your practice, yeah, yes, and guardianship. And again, as in a co-op attorney, that's one of the great mysteries of what I do, because you know you'll have again.
Speaker 1:One of the biggest problems we run into, especially with an aging population and aging residents, is people who can't handle their own affairs, and you know they either stop paying their maintenance, wander the halls or they leave their stoves on. You know, yell at people, hit people, whatever. I've seen everything. So how do people? And then you have families. You know the problem really is when the family doesn't pick up the pieces, so to speak. So how does how do? How do practitioners engage in establishing a guardian, proceeding? Who would they contact? Would they contact the bar? Would they contact someone like you or other organizations they would contact to help protect a resident, you know, in my case a shareholder, but a resident who can't handle their affairs.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. There is such a growing need in every you know wherever the person resides, in every you know wherever the person resides. But I can understand, especially in a shared living space, because where you live is so personal. So if there's someone in your building that's suffering with some kind of deficiency, that's not allowing them to have a safe space for themselves or for others, it's concerning. I specifically practice in the area of Article 81 guardianships, so that's what I'm most familiar with. Article 81 guardianships deal with adults that are unable to care for themselves and that inability is causing them ongoing help, either personally or financially, and we see this in various ways. Sometimes it's the action is brought by a family member who is involved and who's concerned, and potentially this alleged incapacitated person doesn't have their advanced directives in place, and so the family member doesn't have the power to pay bills or to make medical decisions, and so they would have to petition the court to get the power to be appointed guardian.
Speaker 1:So they would bring that proceeding privately, so they can bring that proceeding privately so they can bring the proceeding.
Speaker 4:Either they can retain counsel that would assist them in bringing the proceeding, or there are some people that do it pro se. The clerks in the guardianship part are, I think, particularly helpful, and so they, I'm sure, can assist in providing some guidance there. In other cases you have a person who doesn't have family that's able to assist, and in that case there's a third party that would make the application and they petition the court and they say they don't necessarily want to be appointed guardian, but they say this person needs a guardian and they're in danger for the following reasons they're leaving their stove on, they're wandering the halls, they're forgetting, they're getting lost on the street or they're not making their maintenance payments or their mortgage payments, they're not paying their electric bill, and so so let me just I don't mean to interrupt, but so let's use the co-op example.
Speaker 1:I'm a co-op and I have all of the above that you just mentioned. Would I call an organization to do that? Would I make that? Would the co-op as an organization make the application or something else?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I believe you can retain counsel to draw the petition and then once the court is, it's brought by order to show cause and once that's before the court, then the judge would appoint what's called a court evaluator and that's a person that basically acts as a detective.
Speaker 4:They're the eyes and the ears of the court and they go and they speak with this alleged incapacitated person and they meet with any of their family and friends and healthcare providers and neighbors and anyone that's involved in their life and their care and they make a report and recommendation to the judge if they think that person does need a guardian and then the judge conducts a hearing and at that hearing the judge will take testimony from that alleged incapac person is in need of a guardian and very often the guardianship petitions are looking for both personal needs and property management.
Speaker 4:So this person is they may be able to physically feed themselves, but they're not able to organize meals on wheels so that they can get a food delivery to the house. They're not able to cook food, but they're not able to go to the grocery store and like get a pre-cooked meal. So they need assistance with that and they also need assistance paying their bills and making sure that the monies due to them is coming in appropriately. So the court reviews all this and then they ultimately make a ruling as to if a guardian should be appointed and, if there's a proposed guardian, if that guardian is appropriate.
Speaker 1:And that could be an organization as well as an individual.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's my understanding.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So what is it? New York City Adult Protective Services what is their role in this whole situation? If there's a call for concern that maybe there's an adult that is not capable of taking care of themselves or maybe not being cared for appropriately, and they get involved to do their own evaluation and assess if there's anything that can be done to assist this person, I mean my experience with them, which is long running, is they're not that effective, unfortunately.
Speaker 4:I think there are certain limitations to what people can do and I think sometimes that makes it difficult. I think they also have large caseloads which makes it hard to manage, but if, ultimately, a court determines that someone needs a guardian, then a guardian will be put in place and that should help get the person, the incapacitated person, the help that they need and keep them safe.
Speaker 1:Okay, next, next plug in when we do the CLA on the cop and condo Richard. There's going to be a part about guardianships and Kristen is going to be our guest speaker guardianships and Kristen is going to be our guest speaker Cool.
Speaker 3:Does the guardian have to be licensed or bonded or something? Like that or something like that. How does that work?
Speaker 4:So the guardian takes a training. You could be two types of guardians, essentially. You could be a lay guardian, a family member that is appointed in that role and you take a training. Or you could be, for example, an attorney that acts as guardian. You as well, you take a training, you learn what your role is and then you do have to get bonded. And when the court puts the final order and judgment signs off on that, it spells out what the powers of the guardian are and what they're able to do, and they'll spell out exactly what the guardian's role is and how they're going to proceed. And sometimes those powers need to be expanded because there are unexpected things that need to be addressed and you know, things that weren't anticipated. But that's kind of the guide that the guardian will use to get what needs to be done.
Speaker 1:Does the Bar Association do the training?
Speaker 4:Yes, we do.
Speaker 1:Okay, another valuable service I was going to mention before, you know being very active in, again, the Cop and Condo Committee and aware of the other committees. Another sort of layer of information is legislative advocacy and I know, as part of the Cop and Condo Committee, we've been very active and I'm personally active in legislative advocacy and I know, as part of the Cop and Condo Committee, we've been very active and I'm personally active in legislative issues and we've gotten tremendous support from the Bar Association. And I will tell you from personal experience when a elected official is working on an issue that's you know that's about it's either in committee in Albany or New York City or New York City Council, and they get a letter from the Bar Association, a memo in support or in opposition. It is influential and it is an extremely valuable service. So I just wanted to mention that's another involvement and layer that the committees serve. That is extremely important. All right, so we're about to wrap up here. Richard, did you get the fun?
Speaker 3:stuff. I've got a little bit off script, but you know me.
Speaker 1:Richard likes to go off script, so, richard, go ahead.
Speaker 3:All right, the rapid fire questions. Question number one Do you get a cool reserve parking spot for being the Queens Bar president?
Speaker 4:No I don't?
Speaker 3:Oh man, You've got to make changes.
Speaker 1:He would never say it on air Richard.
Speaker 3:All right. What's your favorite place to have lunch on South Bend Boulevard?
Speaker 4:Oh, that's a good question. There are a couple good places.
Speaker 2:I like that Colombian restaurant on the corner.
Speaker 4:I think they have really good rice and beans and chicken. I love it. I like that place. I like Pun, I love it.
Speaker 3:I like that place, I like Punta Rojo, I like El Rey, so I like all that stuff. All right, what surprised you most about the Queens Bar Association that most people really wouldn't know if they weren't an insider like you?
Speaker 4:We are going to be celebrating our 150th anniversary, which is kind of crazy to me. We're one of the oldest bar associations in the state of New York. We have big celebrations that we're planning coming up and I'm interested to see how the bar association has changed over 150 years. To see how the Bar Association has changed over 150 years. I'm looking to see what kind of demographics we can see about what our membership was as compared to now.
Speaker 1:Yes, I can testify to the last 40 years and it has been an incredible transformation. You can see it in the selection of judges and the members and it's a much more diverse organization, both age wise. You know it's multicultural. It's really changed tremendously over the years, yet still serves the same mission and still feels the same. You know it still feels. You know those dinners at Terrace, on the where is it Terrace on the Park? You know just, at least the food hasn't changed in 40 years.
Speaker 3:So this is a question for both you guys. Since there's going to be a big celebration, are you going to do a time capsule? And, jeff, are you going to contribute some of any of the artifacts from the last 40 years, including maybe a CD copy of this episode?
Speaker 1:Well, I think I would be the artifact. No, but I do remember being a young lawyer and our senior partner was a gentleman, martin Sukoff, who was from Howard Beach and he was a very active member of the Queens party even though our office was in Beach, and he was a very active member of the Queen's Party even though our office was in Manhattan and we used to go. You know, I was 25 years old and we used to go to all these events and it was, at that point, very intimidating for me. Everybody looked really important and you know they just look so proper experienced. I've seen it over my lifetime and it's really been thrilling.
Speaker 3:By the way, if you're a member of another bar association, do you get a discount, a little bit of a credit off for being in multiple bar associations or credit off for being?
Speaker 4:in multiple bar associations. We don't have that currently, but it is something that's been discussed so it could be something in the works, because bar associations are so important and there are so many bar associations in Queens that you can participate in and they each promote the importance of, you know, supporting the legal community and their members. So we want people to join multiple bar associations and participate in all the different events they have, but it's not something we have currently in place.
Speaker 1:I thought I heard, are you the youngest president of the Queens Bar?
Speaker 4:I'm not. There's one, I think one president that beat me out by about a year.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Nevermind.
Speaker 4:That would have been. I know that would have been.
Speaker 1:Well, it would have been 150 years, yet we have our youngest president, it would have been a nice package. If you weren't a lawyer, what career might you have pursued?
Speaker 4:I would have been an educator. I am, I guess I'm not like a super think outside the box. My dad's a lawyer and my mom's a teacher and when I was in college I was deciding I did an education minor, thinking I might be a teacher, and then also thinking maybe I'll go to law school, and I decided to go to law school. But my other path would have been an elementary school teacher.
Speaker 1:Well, I will tell you, my daughter is a first grade teacher and she does love her career.
Speaker 4:So I mean, I think it's similar right. You're dealing with managing people that are going through difficult things, just like you know a first grader that's having a difficult time.
Speaker 1:Well, we had this conversation yesterday because she's she's in the process of buying a house and she was speaking to the bank about whatever, and she said I felt so out of place I didn't really even know what to ask and I said, yeah, but if you asked me to set up a first-grade classroom, I mean I wouldn't know what pictures to put on the walls. You know Exactly. So they both have their expertise. That comes about over years of experience. So listen, kristen, thank you so much. This was fun. We are running out of time. I would like to invite you to come back again when we have more other things to discuss and more information about the Bar Association and about your career. Richard, as always, a good time and everybody out there. Thank you for listening to the Call Up and Condo Insider and Kristen. By the way, you are now a Call Up and Condo Insider, so congratulations.